tv Morning Joe MSNBC May 25, 2018 3:00am-6:00am PDT
burgdorf, "morning joe" starts right now. he makes a decision on north korea, because of stormy daniels. and people can, people can deny that all they want. did he not want the "washington post" to have the word "stormy daniels" on the front page today. guess what -- he succeeded. >> the porn star has confirmed he doesn't want it on the front page. >> well there you go. we were feeling kind of frisky that morning. that was our coverage in march, the morning after the president hastily accepted an invitation to meet with north korea's dictator. the summit has been scrapped and it's "the new york times'" peter baker notes, administration full of surprises, the collapse of the trump/kim summit before it even happened seems like the least surprising news yet. good morning, it's friday, may 25th. with us here in washington, we have former chief of staff at the c.i.a. and department of defense, nbc news national
security analyst jeremy bash. washington anchor for bbc world news america, katty kay, former chairman of the republican national committee, michael steele and nbc news national political reporter heidi przybilla. and in new york the president of the council on foreign relations, richard haass. mika is finishing up her daughter's college graduation events. but a big congratulations to amelia. who is now a graduate of johns hopkins university. >> hey. >> so big day. plus more big family news. jack scarborough turns ten years old today. happy birthday, jack. he's in double digits now, that's very big. hey, richard haass, let me start with you. let's just before we get into all the details the meeting -- that was going to be, but now has been called off at least for
the time being, i'm curious in your immediate reaction. my immediate reaction is a positive one. you don't have half-baked summits. you don't leap in to try to change headlines or the front page of the paper. he rushed in just for those, he rushed in to a meeting where he wasn't even supposed to be a member. he pushed and said, let's have a summit, and 15 minutes later they hatched a summit on one of the most important geopolitical issues in the globe so anything that pushes that summit back and gives him more time to prepare, at least for me, it seems like good news, what about you? >> i agree. i believe there was no chance that the summit could seed. the gap between the two sides was enormous, joe. to me this was something of a respite. an opportunity. the real question is whether the time is used to create the conditions could be convened where diplomacy could succeed.
i think, but particularly the american side, the most important set of meetings might happen in the situation room at the white house. and whether the administration is prepared to accept as a first step something more limited and more modest. but the idea that as an opening gambit, north korea is going to come to the table and say, you're right, we're going to give up all of our nuclear weapons and open the most closed country in the world to the most intrusive inspections ever designed and implemented, that policy had zero chance of working. so i think in the first instance, the real question is whether this administration going to rethink the basis of its policy. >> and jeremy, i'm finding this new strange affection in my heart for john bolton. who really deep-sixed this summit himself by continuing to talk about the libya model. the libya model. now people may ask, why wouldn't north korea like the libya model? because gadhafi gave up his wmd
program and then we killed him. i do think bolton started throwing that out there to make the north koreans go wait a second, the only reason the americans haven't invaded us today is because we have nuclear weapons. now they want us to denuclearize? >> exactly, joe. now i'm with you and richard, i think that a delay of the summit is fine. but the manner in which it was done, i think is highly dangerous. so if the two sides had gotten together and said look, we need more time, we need confidence-building measures, we have to have our lower-level diplomats get together and then put forward a summit. that would be fine. but here we have an exchange of letters where the president says he's praying to god, he won't have to use our massive and powerful nuclear arsenal. >> he was watch ling the show yesterday when we talked about how evangelicals supported him even though he was the least religious man we had ever seen in the public square. now he says he praise to god.
he rights to the north korean leader. people say oh, you're making it about yourself. no, everybody in the administration tells us he watches the show every day. so go ahead. >> what will the north do? the north koreans could actually continue to test intercontinental ballistic missiles. they could continue to fire short-range, medium-range missiles towards japan as they did five times last year. and we could get back into this provocative cycle and we put our military on more of a war footing and there could be a military conflict. i'm fine with delaying summits, but the manner in which it was done i think is highly dangerous. >> katty, they may be back on again. last night, breaking news, that, that north korea issued a statement saying they were deeply disappointed. and they want to come back together and somehow figure out a way to make this summit go forward. like i said yesterday, we would all do well to ignore the words
of the leaders of the two countries and focus on those that are actually working underneath it. it seems like everybody is posing right now. >> yeah and maybe everybody was posing all along. maybe donald trump was posing because he wanted to do something that none of his predecessors had done and maybe the north korean were posing because they thought i could get the photo opportunity with donald trump. i agree it was a good idea to postpone or even cancel the summit because the conditions for it were not right. the problem is that in the last two months since the summit was announced we've put ourselves no a worse position because the relationship between the south koreans and the u.s. were not on the same page. china has been peeled off. and the north koreans have succeeded in doing that. they've got xi jinping on their side. he is -- and when you don't have a unified bloc, there's not maximum pressure on north korea and pyongyang still has its nuclear weapons so would we have been better not to have gone through the last two months at all and to have carried on just
those negotiations that you can, that go on in back channels? that we know that every administration has with the north koreans through back channels and carried on with that without making this big public announcement? >> isn't it a good bet that you, you're going to see this summit in the end, anyway? that these leaders are going to be drawn to each other with a moth is drawn to a flame? and are not going to be able to help themselves in the end? and you can understand why, the north koreans would be an extraordinary win for the north koreans to have a face-to-face meeting with the united states president and for donald trump, donald trump is donald trump. those are some pretty good headlines. >> i think you're probably right, joe, but each side is nervous about being blamed for the failure of a summit. the north koreans don't want to show up and get mousetrapped by american demands that they can't meet. the american side doesn't want to be humiliated. the mr. tlump does not like walking into situations where he doesn't succeed. we saw the build-up over the last few weeks.
so the real question is whether we're prepared to compromise and the alternatives, as katty said one is to think about living with a north korea that has a large and growing arsenal of bombs that can reach us. given how awful those two alternatives are, there is a logic for diplomacy. the real question again i think is whether we're prepared to take half a loaf as a first stage. it doesn't rule out eventual denuclearization, although i'm skeptical we'll ever get to that point in reality. but the real question is again whether we're prepared to take something less as a first step. because again that's the most the north koreans are going to agree to. i think it's important to keep in mind, that somehow this is where i think the administration has it wrong. they think we got to where we are, joe, simply because of threats and sanctions. i'm pretty persuaded that we got to where we are. that north korea said hey, we've reached a plateau. we've done a lot of tests of
missiles and bombs, we can't use our testing site right now. maybe we can trade a little bit of what we've done or might do for some economic relief or some sanctions relief. depending on why we think we got to where we are, that it's pressure on our part, or rather the north koreans decided we could get something out of this. that tells awe lot about where we think we could go. >> they raised the point where they had the ability to threaten the delivery of a nuclear weapon anywhere in the the continental united states. that's a pretty good place to bargain from. they got the threat of that and they can begin their bargaining. i'm with you, they're not going to be giving it up any time soon. certainly not for donald trump. especially when his national security adviser is talking about the quote, libya model. let's move onto the justice department. it held two briefings yesterday, mainly for congress, on an fbi informant's role in the russian
probe. the meeting stirred even more controversy, the president's in-house counsel showed up. for an intel briefing. that, that, that involves the exposing of an fbi informant. exposes the methods used by the intel agencies. this was supposed to be, to make sure that the fbi had kept things in between the line and wasn't about donald trump personally. it was about the nation as a whole. that's the garbage that we've been hearing from the administration, devin nunes. and then donald trump's personal lawyer who is going to be defending him in any possible criminal cases shows up. well the white house chief of staff, john kelly, was also adding to the participants' list on wednesday and arrived at the white house with special counsel emmet flood who is representing the president in the russian probe. senate intel committee vice chair democrat mark warner
tweeted for the record the president's chief of staff and his attorney in an ongoing criminal investigation into the president's campaign, have no business showing up to a classified intel briefing. the hallways of congress, warner said this, well the president's chief of staff, john kelly, kept walking. >> it was inappropriate that kelly and flood were there. >> there's, never been a gang of eight meeting with that kind of white house presence. >> yeah, michael steele, you know why he didn't answer? because there is no good answer. >> no good answer. is. >> a violation of the constitutional norms. this is the president of the united states lying about what the fbi has been doing. lying about what the republican fisa court judges have been
doing. lying, lying, lying. then battering the justice department and the fbi to have a briefing. because they were supposedly quote spies in his campaign and then they have that briefing, and his criminal lawyer turns up. his criminal tower turns up. to figure out who informants are and to further expose the methods of the federal bureau of investigation and the intel committee, community in general. >> this is my recommendation to everyone who is currently under investigation by the fbi. the next time they have a meeting, you make sure you have your folks show up and get all that intel as well. because what the president's team did yesterday is something no other citizen in this country would be permitted to do. and that's to have their counsel and their executive chief officer from their business, if you will. inside a meeting --
>> to figure out what evidence the fbi has against you in an ongoing criminal probe. >> and this is what twists my stuff in a knot. is that republicans are complicit in this crazy. and they're sitting here now, and dumbing down the system. disintegrating the very pillars of justice in this country. a by going after those institutions like the fbi and the doj. and permitting the president to behave in a way in which no other american citizen and they know damn well this is true. would be able to behave. >> heidi. no man is above the law in america. that's been part of our creed when it comes to justice, for a very long time. but donald trump right now because of republicans in the house of representatives, especially, is an american who is above the law. the rules do not apply to donald
trump during investigation. the rules do not apply to donald trump. because people like paul ryan and devin nunes say the rules that apply to you and me and 320 million americans don't apply to them. >> we've seen it in such vivid display this week. day after day as well. when paul ryan was asked, do you think this is having any impact on our institutions, he says point-blank, no. but it's friday, so let's do a week in review. just this week, it's not just what happened yesterday. it was an outing of a confidential source, it was the president himself ordering this meeting, calling rosenstein and ray and dni director coats and saying he wants this meeting and then not even trying to hide it. sending his own personal lawyer there and having rudy giuliani coming out after and saying it depends on how much information we get. so it's in full view and its intentional. they're not, they're almost cutting out the middleman here,
devin nunes, who at least in previous iterations with the wiretapping, the bogus wiretapping claims and the unmasking claims, would run over in the dark cloak of night to the white house to give them new information. here they're doing it in full display. >> rudy giuliani yesterday when asked about the summit, said well we may not be doing the summit, but we may. because donald trump won't be entrapped. what did he say, he won't be entrapped in a korean perjury trap. it's amazing to me that any lawyer thinks that their client is such a liar, that the first thing that comes to mind even when they're not talking about a possible criminal investigation, is still obsessed with the fact that they have a client who cannot stop from lying. long enough to be committing perjury. so even some republicans by the way, yesterday, just so you know, were taken aback by this
constitutional breach. lindsey graham told pbs that it's a bit odd if the president's lawyer is there. i'd like to know why. as would we. in a statement the white house said neither chief kelly nor mr. flood actually attended the meetings, but did make brief remarks before the meetings, started to row lay the president's desire for his as much openness as possible under the law. they conveyed the preds's understanding of the need to protect human intelligence services, no, too late, too late, too late. it's too late, because the president's recklessness has exposed the identity of somebody that has helped the intel community. for years now. so -- jeremy, i've got to ask you, sort of a general question about where we are in this investigation. donald trump has been -- how would the greeks say this? he's been freaking out this
week. >> that happens a lot. >> one of socrates -- "stop ye freaking out." we know that the greeks used the word "ye" a lot. >> the olde english. >> it's really greek that, olde english. i'm sorry, alex, i'm getting there. but donald trump has been freaking out so badly this week. since sunday, and all of these crazy tweets and talking about spygate and like he's losing it. on the other side, you have bob mueller being bob mueller. and rod rosenstein after this is over, he can do weekend gigs like -- henny youngman used to do up in the catskills. because rod rosenstein and bob mueller are acting like men or
women sitting around a table in a poker match that are getting insulted and they're looking at their hands and they have four aces. do you pick that up with rosenstein? every time he goes out, he's just sitting there smiling and last night i heard on chris hayes, somebody said on chris hayes, they've got this kill trigger. you start firing us, we just press the button and the indictments start getting emailed out. are they holding four aces already? are they not fearful of donald trump firing them? do they have this all planned out, do you think? that if he does start firing them, they press the button and all the indictments start getting sent out? >> i don't know if they think they have four aces, but i don't think they fear the president or other reputed defendants in this matter. first of all, in the content of this whole controversy of spygate, we hardly knew you. puff, it's over. in terms of content it was a nothing burger. there was nothing to the
allegation. >> you know what some at fox news was saying, this was bigger than watergate. you remember the fisa judges? that was bigger than watergate. until they found out that the four fisa judges were republicans. >> they're not going to drop this will, though. we haven't heard from nunes or gowdy. and an administration official on background said it doesn't matter what we learn in this meeting, it's not going to be conclusive to prove that there wasn't a spy. >> there's nothing to inappropriate spying allegations and rod rosenstein did put that to bed the other day. if there's allegation of inappropriateness, we'll get to the bottom of it he knows there isn't any allegation of inappropriate use of confidential sources. second, joe, back to the issue of emmet flood, the president's personal lawyer here. the thing that's so concerning is it's not just like the ceo's general counsel showing up at a meeting with the investigators. this is the president's white house can counsel. this is being done under the
color of laul. this is not just a use of office, it's a misuse of office, a misuse of white house authority. the reason is we oversee the justice department we have an equity in this whole matter. we want to make some opening remarks. come on, this is a total abuse of power. and emmet flood, who i respect his intellect, he's a good lawyer, i've worked with him in the past. he knows better this is a destruction of the constitutional norms. that would, that should take the president and any criminal or otherwise defendant out of this kind of dispute. >> katty, let's clarify this to make it as simple as possible. you're the president of the united states subject to an investigation of, a possible criminal investigation. and that president is not only interfering with the justice department and the federal bureau of investigation, he is actively attacking them. only as it pertains to his investigation. not saying they're dropping the ball on, you know other
responsibilities. it all involves his own personal investigation. which of course, makes it an extraordinary breach of constitutional norms. >> yes. and as he does so, he watches the opinion polls, which show that his approval numbers are ticking up and that the number of american who is think this investigation is politically motivated is also ticking up. and every time he tweets out spygate or even calls a meeting like this, with the display of wanting to investigate spygate, every time he uses the word on twitter, he knows that with a certain portion of the public, that is starting to resonate. and you know you repeat it, you you repeat it and there will be people who start believing it. and he can start looking at his approval numbers and start, just because the economy is ticking up if nothing else, he starts thinking he has more credibility when he starts attacking the investigation. >> still ahead on "morning joe," as heidi mentioned paul ryan
brushes off concerns about damage inside america's institutions. the house speaker told kasie hunt about the president's ongoing attacks against the fbi, justice department and law enforcement agencies. plus "the wall street journal" tracks down an email that calls into question roger stone's testimony to congress that's really shocking. yeah, when he actually specifically says -- what date he needs a wikileaks email from. first, let's go to bill karins, he's going to give us a check on the memorial day weekend forecast. bill, i know that after such horrific weather over the past several months you're going to give everybody, you're going to give children all over america, especially those who live on the east coast, good news for this sunny beautiful memorial day weekend. >> we could have tropical storm alberto over pensacola this weekend, how fun is that, right? that's the possibility.
we're going to deal with rain no matter what. if we get a subtropical storm or depression or a tropical storm. the weather going to be the same. here it is, 90% chance of developments over the yucatan, drenching cancun, that's going to start to spread north over the weekend. the development zone hasn't changed much. so let's take you through the weekend forecast. today by the way, if you can get away with it, the mid-atlantic, the northeast, the great lakes, today is perfect to get to the beach, the lake, the pool. temperatures mid to upper 80s. southeast afternoon storms and it is hot. the next four to five days from texas to the central plains, even the northern plains, on saturday minneapolis at 94. but the story going to be in florida where we'll start to see the heavier rain late saturday night is when the tropical system will get close enough to begin to spread the direct rainfall over the northern gulf coast. but it's not until sunday that we see the heavier rains and the flood threat developing anywhere between new orleans, mobil, pensacola, panama city over to tallahassee. it's a slow-moving system. it do stall out here and that
lasts even into memorial day for areas of the southeast. cooler in the northeast also on memorial day after a very warm friday and saturday. so we'll give you updates on that in case it does become our first tropical system of the season. by the way, the name would be alberto. washington, d.c., it's going to be warm summer-like for your friday and saturday, but saturday night, thunderstorms will cool you off. it took guts to start my business. but as it grew bigger and bigger, it took a whole lot more. that's why i switched to the spark cash card from capital one. with it, i earn unlimited 2% cash back on everything i buy. everything. and that 2% cash back adds up to thousands of dollars each year... so i can keep growing my business in big leaps! what's in your wallet?
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every, every show you've seen where a guy goes, if anything happens to me -- it looks like that's what frank fegluzi assistant director of counterintelligence, on why the white house attacks are not affecting the outcome of the russian investigation. only mueller's strategy. despite trump's legal team's assertion that robert mule certificate beginning to wrap it up, that's rudy giuliani who as we have found out, is just making things up as he goes along. a new court filing depicts an investigation that is very active and very secret. federal court late this week, mueller's prosecutors requested a judge deny media requests to unseal their findings for searches and surveillance. quote the special counsel's investigation is not a closed matter, but an ongoing criminal investigation. with multiple lines of nonpublic
inquiry. as of this date the government has brought criminal charges against 22 individuals and entities arising from their investigation. the fact that certain charges have been brought does not imply the special counsel's investigation is closed. adding that disclosure materials could reveal sources, methods, factual and legal theories and lines of investigation extending beyond the charged conduct. one of the few messages from inside the special counsel's office saying there's more to this investigation than those who have pleaded guilty or been indicted. now, let's think about this. you have a lot of people, like the vice president of the united states who's channeling richard nixon saying it's time to wrap up this investigation. one year of watergate or one year of bob mueller is enough. but in one year the mueller investigation has resulted in five guilty pleas, 14
indictments of individuals and three companies, along with reported referral to federal prosecutor it is in new york on michael cohen. that will be the biggest case. by comparison, in whitewater's more than four years with four convictions, two acquittals and six dismissals. you had a much longer and a much less effective investigation. and jeremy, of course some of the same people, including rudy giuliani, that have one opinion on bob mueller's investigation, had quite a different opinion when it came to bill clinton. in fact, we've got giuliani saying the president doesn't have to talk to anybody. and yet there he is with charlie rose in 1999 during impeachment going -- if the special counsel asks for an interview, he, the president, has to give it. no man is above the law. and again, republicans cheered
on ken starr for four years. in a failed land deal. we're in year one. >> by not talking to the special counsel, the president is dragging this out. that was the advice he got from his pal, chris christie. there are many ways to make this longer. there's almost no way to make this shorter. >> by the way, i was talking to somebody inside the administration, michael steele, who kept telling me that this russian investigation was nonsense. i said you know, if it's such nonsense, why do you, you know because he always tell me, there's nothing there, there's nothing there. if there's nothing there, then why are you acting like they're about to uncover -- >> thank you. >> a thousand tons of contraband in your back yard? >> i said this for the longest time, really from the beginning of this. if there is no "there" there, if there is the witch hunt that the president says it is, then you go out and do your thing.
you have nothing to hide. i'm fully giving you access to everything. i'm going to run the government. i'm going to move my agenda forward. you do your thing. because the very weight of nothing will show that there is a false narrative here. but the president does have something that he's concerned about. which is why he's taking this seriously. >> he's scared. >> which seems to be why the president is trying to set the bar so high in terms of what any guilty verdict might look like. it has to be literally, trump and putin in a boat in the black sea cooking up the election. otherwise there's nothing there to be seen. because he must know that if the special counsel starts digging into anything to do with his finances, the chances of there being nothing there -- are nothing. >> richard haass, again donald trump has made himself look like there's something there. he's made himself look guilty. i don't know, did you ever see
absence of malice with paul newman and wilfred brimley. they had the scene where wilfred brimley brings everybody into the room. think he's a u.s. attorney and says we're going to bring everybody into this room and by the end of this meeting i'm going to know what the hell -- happened. well they sat in that room and they figured it out and i understand that this is a little bit more serious. but i can tell you how i would respond at the beginning of this investigation. russians? trying to investigate? i mean trying to infiltrate the united states and impact our election? let me tell you what i'm going to do -- we're calling everybody into the room. you sit at the end of the table mr. mueller. you ask everybody in this room questions. if they want to get lawyers, they can get lawyers, if they want to plead the fifth they're not going to work for me until they can answer these questions on whether they participated. that's what any leader who didn't have things to fear would
do. donald trump is doing just the opposite. he's dragging out this investigation. he's cooking up conspiracy theories. he's doing everything he can to obstruct truth-finding mission to figure out what really happened. what does that suggest, richard? >> it suggests to me two things. one is given how hard it will be to prove collusion, all the stuff the administration is doing is probably giving mr. mueller other things he can charge them with. obstruction, perjury and the likes. they may be creating problems where in fact none existed. the other is as you take a step back. the entire campaign to delegitimize this inquiry suggests to me that they know bad things are coming. and what they want to do is poison or season, let's use a neutral word, the political environment. so if and when indictments come out or what have you, that 45% of the american people essentially see it as a politicized and illegitimate process. that again to me suggests that
they know bad things are coming. >> and that's what donald trump admitted to leslie stahl off-camera. i'm trying to trash the press so when you guys say bad things about me, nobody will believe it. >> raising the threshold for public outrage. so when the charges whatever they are come out, not only will the public not believe it, but members of congress, who don't want to act on it will have a pass. what is the ultimate solution here? it falls to congress to look at mueller's recommendations and decide what to do. >> well still ahead, much more on the fallout of president trump's decision to pull the plug on the summit with kim jong un and the role that china may be playing in it. and later, harvey weinstein going to be facing justice this morning. expected to surrender to authorities today on sex abuse charges. we'll have the latest, coming up. once there was an organism so small
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>> no, that's him quoting donald trump, right? because mike pompeo wouldn't say that. i know that was trump's letter, but he didn't -- he was just reading it because -- yeah. that did not sound like a guy who graduated first in his class at harvard and -- anyway. with us now we've got professor of georgetown university and author of "the impossible state: north korea, past and future" dr. victor cha, he's an nbc news and msnbc korean affairs analyst. what do you think about the summit being postponed or canceled? >> i think it was a problem that donald trump created for himself. he walked into this thing very quickly, raised expectations along the way. when we all knew any way that he dealt with north korea this was not going to be easy and there was going to be very little certainty of anything if he wasd
headed on a plane to singapore. so that made it very difficult for him to stick with this plan. and we are where we are now. >> richard haass, you saw mike pompeo reading that letter to the north koreans. what's the impact of that, not only on the north koreans, but also on our allies? and also again, what's the impact of our allies once again being blind-sided by a white house action? >> part of it is the tactical issue you just got at. the idea that the south korean president was left twisting in the wind and surprised by this is quite stunning, given how much they had days before talked about the near-certainty of a summit. but more broadly this doesn't take place in a vacuum. this is an administration that, think about it, its first diplomatic decision was to take the united states out of the trans-pacific partnership. so this raised fundamental questions about our political and economic and strategic involvement in the region. our narrow approach to trade talks with south korea. it was as if we forgot they were
an ally. a few weeks ago there were stories that the secretary of defense had been tasked to look at the possibility of removing all u.s. troops from the korean peninsula. what this administration is doing is communicating an incredible sense, a message that we are not predictable, we are not reliable. this is what you cannot afford to transmit to your allies. and they've made the decision to depend on us. >> richard, let me ask you, what is the impact to aur allies? what have you heard so far coming over the transom about having of course, general mattis, as secretary of defense, now having mike pompeo, as secretary of state, certainly somebody that understands how to make bureaucracies work better than rex tillerson did. and also understands you know picking up the phone and talking to people that you may not agree with. same thing with gina haspel. at the c.i.a. a lot of people have concerns
with what she did in the past but people think she's going to do an extraordinary job there. donald trump has, because donald trump selected them, donald trump has a strong foreign policy team around them. are they working the back channels at the same time he's writing these blustery letters telling everybody to calm down, this is the plan? >> well, they are. but the problem is that john bolton has just the opposite effect, quite honestly. and at the end of the day, general mattis and secretary pompeo, they work for donald trump. this tone of the letter, the language, this did not look like something that was staff-drafted. reports are that the president wrote it himself. it doesn't matter, the president doesn't work for them, joe, they work for him. he is the one who is sitting there. he is the one who has the fundamental view that the costs of american foreign policy outweigh the benefits. the u.s. trade agreements have hurt us more than helped us. the rest of the world isn't looking at the cabinet.
they're looking at the white house. >> victor, let me ask you, are we in a more dangerous situation now than we were before the whole summit acceptance situation happened? are we back at the line of scrimmage? if so, maybe that's okay. or have we taken a sack at 20 yards and are we in a more dangerous situation? >> i think potentially jeremy, we could have taken a sack here. particularly if the north koreans feel that dialogue between the united states and the dprk is now cut off. they may go back to testing missiles, their testing moratorium was based on the continuation of dialogue. we haven't heard statements from the north koreans. but it's entirely plausible that they may head in that direction. in addition to that, you know our relationship with china over this has become much more complicated. the north korean attitude changed definitively after the north korea's second trip to china, which we did not know about until after it happened. the chinese may be loosening the spigot on sanctions which makes the north less willing to come
talk with us. or they could have just told the north koreans, don't meet with the united states alone. we want to be in that meeting, if it were ever to happen. >> the chinese didn't like getting peeled away from the process and we are in a position where the allies are not all on the same page to the extent that the china and the u.s. are allies. not just that we've got divisions. the international community are waking up to the realization is that donald trump is one who speaks hastily, and doesn't always follow through. that's going to be factored into relations. we've got divisions within this administration. you know between bolton and pompeo for example. and that's pretty evident over this. they're not speaking from the same page. >> i think that's right. if you look at that picture of south korea is a great ally. they fought with the united states in every war since the korean war. there's a picture of the south korean national security team. they look like they're in a wake. they look visibly depressed and completely blind-sided by this decision.
>> before we were on this fast track to nobel peace prize, the calculation -- >> can i ask you this, heidi, can you ask the representative who is drafted up the legislation to commemorate his nobel -- >> i think they're going to subsidize the coins. >> i want one of those coins. how do you get one of those coins? >> i need those. >> the calculation has been that nothing changes without beijing and moscow. to your point, how do we get this back on track? is it going back to the chinese? and making them feel as if they're not marginalized, bringing them more into the process of planning the next summit? what is the next step. >> so the silver lining if there is one in all this. is as a result of the semi preparations for the summit. there is now a high-level direct-channel dialogue between the united states and the north koreans. you know through pompeo and the people working with pompeo. so to the extent they can
continue to work that channel, try to get the conditions set up for a promise of a summit in the future. that would actually take us back to the way we should be doing diplomacy. with north korea. rather than this, rather than this decision by trump to do something right away that led to this disaster. >> dr. victor cha, thank you so much. we'll have more on the story with andrea mitchell. and admiral james stavridis when they join us at the top of the hour. the white house sparks controversy when a lawyer handling the russia investigation is spotted at a pair of classified meetings about -- the russia investigation. we'll dig into that and more when "morning joe" returns from washington. this is a story about mail and packages.
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weinstein is expected to surrender to authorities in new york in connection with sexual misconduct allegations, that according to a source familiar with the case. the charges stem from an investigation of sexual abuse and his conduct by police and the manhattan district attorney's office. three sources said the charge would include allegations made by two women. two sources familiar with the case said weinstein is expected to surrender to authorities at about 7:00 this morning at the new york police department's first precinct in southern manhatt manhatt manhattan. harvey weinstein will be fingerprinted and photographed and transported to new york county criminal court. he's expected to be released on $1 million bail and required to wear an ankle monitor. weinstein's attorney declined comment to nbc news and weinstein has denied all wrongdoing. so katty kay, the first example
of somebody who weinstein launched in the me too movement, his misdeeds, somebody who is finally going to be facing criminal penalties for their actions. >> so often in these cases of harassment it's actually very difficult to bring any criminal charges. the bar is set very high. >> it's also difficult to prove. >> very difficult to prove. >> so the fact they're taking this to court means they either want to make a point or they believe they have a strong case. >> and they are still hoping, the authorities, the prosecutors that there will be more women who come forward, perhaps inspired by what happened in the case of bill cosby. there was one trial, a bunch more women came forward, gave their cases and if you can show a pattern of behavior that boosters the prosecution's case and that might be what happens in the weinstein case. >> heidi, how important is this? >> it's coming full circle. this is how the who me-too movement was launched and
another hurdle here is the statute of limitations because so many of these incidents are over the past decade. but it's also time for us to pause and reflect on the me too movement and how it began and where it's going because as a woman and journalist i see many incidences that are unfairly lumped in. this is the worst. this is why the movement was launched, because of men like weinstein. >> you mean somebody maybe accused of doing something that hasn't been proved it's far less than this? >> i put my hand on you, joe, i'm talking about accusations like that. >> and that person's picture is put next to harvey weinstein's. >> correct, yes. all right, we'll see what happens. weinstein's arrival could be at any moment in new york city's first precinct. we'll bring that to you when it
happens. plus, one of our next guests says the canceled north korea summit is the latest sign that president trump is a better deal breaker than deal-maker. think about it. paris, iran, north korea, nafta, the tpp. this guy is making no deals and he is breaking every deal. the "new yorker's" susan glasser will be with us to explain her take. "morning joe" coming right back. like where to treat, can feel overwhelming. so start your search with a specialist at cancer treatment centers of america. start with teams of cancer treatment experts under one roof focused on the delivery of precision cancer treatment. start at one of the cancer treatment centers of america hospitals near you. the evolution of cancer care is here. learn more at cancercenter.com/experts appointments available now.
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welcome back to "morning joe," it's friday, may 25, and we are live in washington, d.c. mika is finishing up her daughter's college graduation events, but you're looking at live pictures. this is from southern manhattan where harvey weinstein according to sources is expected to surrender on sex crime charges some time this morning. we obviously will be watching and any breaking news that comes we will pass that along to you. but with us right now we have the president of the council on foreign relations, richard haass. we've also got the former chief of staff at the cia department of defense, nbc news national security analyst jeremy bash, msnbc political analyst and former chairman of the republican national committee, michael steele. washington anchor for bbc world news america katty kay.
and joining the conversation, politics editor for the daily beast, sam stein. and nbc news chief foreign affairs correspondent and host of "andrea mitchell reports," andrea mitchell. also, former nato supreme allied commander, now the dean of fletcher school of law and diplomacy at tufts university, retired four-star navy admiral james stavridis. thank you so much. that's all the time we have for this hour. coming up in the 8:00 rock block -- also, congratulations amelia on graduating. there she is with her happy mom. also this morning jack scarborough, happy 10th birthday. double digits today. double digits today. >> big family events. >> ten years ago.
a rough start. touch-and-go for about five or six weeks but all is well that ends well. we're going to go to katty kay in a minute, proving to sam stein that it's only when sam stein is in the jump seat that we ignore you. andrea, i want to talk about north korea but first i want to talk about another breach of constitutional norms. another example of regardless how you feel about this president we have a man who has no respect for the rule of law or the traditions surrounding what has made america what it is, the constitutional republic that does put the rule of law first and believes no man is above the law. you get donald trump sending his personal lawyer who may have to defend him on criminal conduct coming out of the mueller probe
into his attempt to investigate the people investigating the criminal probe. >> his personal lawyer and the chief of staff going to the justice department where confidential documents were supposedly being reviewed. we don't know what happened inside doj and then going to a gang of eight meeting, this is a decade's long tradition since the intelligence committees were form formed, bipartisan support of the intelligence agencies and the fact that this was a breach where only republicans initially being part of this and finally the democrats pushed through and i'm not sure who interceded at the last moment, it may have been dni coats, a former senator, who as head of dni may have felt empowered to stake a stand. >> but this would be like richard nixon investigating the fbi and the justice department in 1973 and demanding to see
documents that they had on him on watergate and sending ho holderman over to look at the documents. >> in fact that happened because john mitchell was the attorney general at this point and was sharing confidential information with the white house but that was the last time we know of that this kind of breach occurred between the justice department and the chief executive and this is the chief executive who is the subject of an investigation. >> let's go to north korea. richard haass, give me your insights on where we are the next day and i will just tell you i may not be as negative as you or others on this. i'm glad that this summit that was hastily put together when donald trump was trying to get his affair with a porn star off the front page of the paper, i'm glad this summit has been pushed
back and i'm not so sure that we are in a weaker position. we know where china stands, we know where south korea stands. we know where we stand, perhaps if we move forward, we move forward with china around the table, south korea around the table and japan around the table which makes more sense than donald trump and kim jong-un sitting around the table from each other. >> the idea that this was a false start, the one thing that was not going to succeed was an ambitious summit without preparation so you can try to bring them together. they set an agenda for talks carried out by ministers and staff. or you have the staff and ministers meet for months or years could be flat rbilateral multilateral and only if and when they cook an agreement.
then you bring president trump together with kim jong-un so in this case we dodged a bullet but the biggest issue, which ever approach we take is are we prepared to accept as a first stage of agreement something more modest and not insist on north korea's denuclearization as the only acceptable path forward. if that's the only acceptable path forward we won't move forward. >> richard, it's jeremy bash. is there a risk north korea could retest its intercontinental ballistic missile s and continue work on minute thattizing the nuclear warhead that could threaten the united states and other allies in the region? >> the short answer is yes. there's a real risk they could do that. that's why it's important to keep china in and others to discourage that. before all this began we had two
terrible scenarios, one was the one you describe where north korea continues to improve the quality and increase the quantity of weapons it could aim at us or we can hid the about war. we don't want to go back to that binary choice. we need to focus on representing a diplomatic process. >> admiral stavridis let me ask you two questions. how does the united states of america, how does president trump accept a nuclearized north korea moving forward after a summit took place and second ly how does north korea accept any terms that require them to denuclearize, get rid of all of their nuclear weapons while you have john bolton and mike pence and others in america talking about the quote libya strategy. yeah, the libya strategy, playing the libya card turning
out to be like a busted flush in a poker game. at the end of the day, the chances of kim jong-un giving up his nuclear weapons are about the same as the mexicans paying for the wall. it won't happen on the planet earth in any realtime so i think richard has it right which is we need to realign our negotiating strategy with reality and that probably means a limited number of nuclear weapons and maybe have a phaseout over time. all of that requires slow patient useful diplomacy that this administration hasn't shown us. >> would you recommend to the president of the united states if you had his ear that he should accept a nuke eclearized north korea moving forward. >> this is the second question and i think the bottom line is at some point we're going to have to accept a limited number
of nuclear weapons or we're going to vice president to find a way to take them out of the cold dead hands of kim jong-un. that's not an attractive set of choices and we have lived with deter rinse, the one-word answer to your question, we've lived with a deterrent regime for nuclear weapons for decades. it's not an attractive or comfortable choice. i don't think kim jong-un is insane. i don't think he is dangerously willing to suddenly launch a nuclear weapon at the united states so i think it's a det deterrent regime that can be managed. not a good set of outcomes but we have to have a negotiating strategy that starts small and gets bigger. >> andrea, we have been painting kim jong-un and north korean leaders as being madmen for some time. you look where we're sitting right now at may 25, 2018,
they've been quite brilliant, like iranian leaders, because as they look at how the united states and its president, successive presidents, treat troublesome powers, if you don't have wmds like saddam hussein or gadhafi they come in and you end up dead. if you do have nuclear weapons, like pakistan they treat you far differently. so it seems like far from being insane or a madman, kim jong-un has played the united states and his father, the last three presidents, very well. >> indeed, and now he's also played china and south korea against each other in the bargain, china the big winner here, admiral stavridis was talking to me about that yesterday and has a lot of insight into that. south korea the big loser, president moon ran on a program of normalization and
reconciliation and now he didn't even get a warning. he convened -- he heard about that letter and convened a midnight meeting with his national security council. how do you treat allies like that? >> i suspect the south koreans will have a summit at some point but how hard is it to have somebody -- to call mike pompeo and say can you give our allies a heads up and let them know this is happening in five minutes? how hard is that? >> nbc news reported that pompeo was blindsided by bolton. that bolton went to the meeting with the president and came to this overnight conclusion and then informed the secretary of state who had been the envoy to north korea twice. how humiliating is that? he met with the chinese and the japanese the day before at the state department, i was there and president moon had just been
in the oval office two days earlier and went back to his country and then was blindsided. >> we talk about these things as if it's a binary relationship between north korea and the united states. there are ramification for a host of other countries. south korean leadership. i don't see how they can say let's do this all over again without some assurances from the administration. but a question for the admiral. we haven't talked about the iran deal. you were talking about a slower burn of negotiations, maybe more incremental deals that we can get with the the north koreans but it strikes me that by rejecting the iran deal because it was the world's worst deal in history, that set asbar for what the north koreans much reach and that precludes the deal you were outlining five minutes ago. >> it does and this is the irony and disconnects you see from
within the administration and the world is watching so kim jong-un is not only thinking about the libyan model but he's also looking at the iranian model which is maybe we'll get into a deal and build confidence and open things up, whoops, let's pull the rug out from under you so all of this makes it incredibly hard. there's another player entering the equation. we've been talking about mike pompeo and jim mattis and the national security team. the new ambassador nominated to korea is the former commander of u.s. pacific command, admiral harry harris, known to many of the people here. i think he'll be a fairly steady voice but we should remember he is also deeply steeped in these war plans and so that set of personal relationships in washington will have a
back-and-forth feeling that will make it even more difficult to get that slow burn diplomacy but that is the right answer. >> so michael steele, we've heard donald trump bragging from the beginning of his campaign, june of 2015, that he was a keen deal maker he wrote the art of the deal, he'd get democrats and republicans together, he'd a talk to the north koreans, he'd take care of irans believe me, i'm the greatest deal maker ever. it's not been the art of the deal, it's been the art of the debacle. he broke up the iran deal, he broke up tpp with our allies across asia which strengthen's china's hand. the paris accords -- >> trashed them. >> trashed them and they were
voluntary guidelines that would have helped us. it was going to move countries like india and china. paris would have helped us in the long run, now you have to north korea deal, you have the china deal. has he made one deal? no, he hand. he's broken the china deals so many times you don't know where he's standing. this guy can't make a deal. >> he can't make a deal to be straight up about it and the irony is the art of the deal is knowing what you want. >> you know what he wants? >> that's it. >> he wants headlines. >> he wants headlines. there's no policy. >> he's a day trader. it's all about what are the headlines in the moment? >> it's the transaction of the moment. and the point you were making about the players left on the
sidelines finding out at the last minute, that's what happens in a day trade, you don't know who is up or down and that's how he drives foreign and domestic policy. >> how many times will the summit be back on? >> three or four times? >> i bet you it will probably be back on by this weekend. the north koreans now are giving positive signals and it may be broken again when bolton says yes, we want kim jong-un to get all of the great things we want want wanted. >> i think if you're going to look at the winner of winners, it's china. >> you knew at that moment this whole thing was about to turn because china was like wait a minute, hold up, you're going to do what? >> and he had never been there before. twice in two months and as the president said, i think correctly and i think the admiral would bear me out on
this, he everything changed after that. >> which, by the way, katty kay, how are you going to have a deal with north korea, which is china's 51st state. 90% of imports and exports back and forth between china and north korea, there shouldn't be a deal without china at the table, without south korea at the table, without japan at the table, we're talking about all of these deals that donald trump bro broke, what's the impact on our european allies and our allies across the middle east when he makes a move he makes on jerusalem, what's the impact on our allies in asia when he makes these decisions on his own not even telling -- andrea says not even telling the secretary of state that he's making the
moves, it has to be deeply unsettling for our allies. >> what it reinforces amongst allies -- and i have to say there was a huge amount of attention yesterday around the world to the fact that the summit was canceled. there are foreign media who will send their journalists who singapore so everybody was talking about this summit. but the impact it has is this is a white house that proposes thing, a president that proposes things but doesn't necessarily know enough about the issues to follow through and make those things actually turn out. so if there is to be another summit, next time around if that summit is proposed again everybody is going to be a little bit more skeptical about possibilities for outcomes. i think one thing that's clearly happened is that we've always been asking all along is donald trump crazy like a fox in a good way or bad way? is this a style that can produce results? it will produce results if donald trump has the ability to have insight, if he can come
away from this process and say, hmm, this didn't work because we didn't understand the chinese had their own interests and the south koreans had their own and me wanting to get a summit because no one else has had one, that wasn't going fly in in other interests in other countries. if donald trump can go through that learning process and real i realize things are complicated -- >> catty, if you would like me to help you save your breath and not finish, let's end it before you go to the then -- >> you know where i'm going. >> it's what everybody has been saying. >> failures can be learning processes, right? >> it's not going to happen. >> that needs to happen. they need to understand it's more complicated than donald trump was prepared to allow for.
>> at the end of the day donald trump was confronted by -- i don't think it's just jgeneral mattis. i think it's mike pompeo saying mr. president, here's the deal, they won't get rid of all their nuclear weapons, it will never happen so there will be two outcomes, you'll either walk away as a failure or you'll be the first american president to recognize north korea's rights to have a nuclear weapon. that is something that donald trump can never take back to his base. that's something donald trump will never allow to happen because in every republican debate in 2020, he will be the one who caved to kim jong-un. >> and that's why accepting this summit invitation without going through that review was a major concession and set back u.s. interests. let me ask jim stavridis one question here as we talk about china. we're amidst a tense trade
discussion with china. do you think that we're headed for a more contentious relationship with china in the wake of this breakdown of the summit? >> i do and i'll see your trade and raise you one, which is south china sea. what happened last week that we're not so focused on, chinese bombers are landing on artificial islands in the south china sea. there's another name for artificial islands, unsyncabink aircraft carriers. china is building a military suite of cards, they're going to play the trade, which is economic, the political implications of the one belt one road. china is playing a big complicated game here and we're just like focused like a laser on this north korea issue. we need to open our vision and understand these larger pieces, jeremy, like the trade, like the south china sea. that's part of what has to be in
this slow burn of democracy that we mentioned earlier. >> and to richard haass, does china have to be at the table? do we have to get buy-in from china for north korea to ever negotiate? >> china has to be involved. they don't have to be physically at the table. we've had them at the table in the past and that didn't solve things. but this is not going to happen without china's involvement one way or another. china won't put so much pressure on north korea that it risks destabilizing north korea. it reinforces the argument. we have to have limited goals, at least as an initial step. and there's a pattern here. we see it with the trade negotiations with china. we see it with the 12 musts we've seen to iran and we see it here. this is administration that time and time again is setting out unrealistic unrealizable goals in its negotiations. it doesn't seem to think about then what happens if and when they don't happen. the other side doesn't back
down. and i think that's the dilemma they're facing with north korea. they simply won't get the denuclearization they say is essential. what are they prepared to accept? >> can you -- and again, i'm not being facetious here, but michael steele, donald trump's worst nightmare is -- and people very close to donald trump who worked with him in campaigns have said this is that mark cuban runs in the republican primary to beat donald trump. can you imagine mark cuban going, hey, trump, you're such a big talker, oh, you're going to take these nuclear weapons from iran and you're going to take -- you, donald trump, you are the first commander in chief in the history of america that actually accepted north korea's right to have a nuclear weapon that could obliterate seattle, that could
obliterate oklahoma city, that could obliterate birmingham, alabama, that could obliterate washington, d.c. congratulations, mr. art of the deal. art of the deal? more like art of the steal and the north koreans stole all your money out of your pocket. do you think donald trump will put himself in that position? >> no, he won't and you made the case so maybe you should be looking at 2020 to lay that on there. >> a few billion dollars short and 1200 episodes of shark tank short of -- >> i have one disagreement which is i think the voters where much more tribal and i think they would sign up for a deal that donald trump negotiated regardless of the merits of the deal and the reason i say that is because it wasn't that long ago, maybe only a few months ago, that the mere notion that you would even talk with kim was completely out of bounds for the republican electorate and then suddenly when trump agrees to this summit to get something else out of the headlines he's
doing the nobel peace prize and i think voters will follow trump wherever he goes -- >> the only thing i have to say about that -- and michael -- you were so smart, you were so brilliant. michael, you have this phony war leading into a campaign and then the 30-second ads run and then they start hammering everyday and when the phony war ends and the actual campaigning begins suddenly all of these things that donald trump has done, that everybody is saying he's getting away with that melts away. donald trump was the guy at 1% 20% when he came down the escalator, a 65% disapproval rating inside the republican party, everything changes. >> everything does change and the one thing donald trump does not want is a narrative of failure which is why he tries so hard to avoid it at all costs at the expense of everything else so i take your point, sam.
but the truth is that is a sticking point for him. >> he cannot show weakness. now we're seeing pictures of harvey weinstein surrendering to poli police in the sexual misconduct cases that have rocked not only hollywood but the united states and the start of the me too movement. this is where it has led us. weinstein is expected to surrender to authorities today, the new york police department's first precinct in southern manhattan. he's expected to be fingerprinted and photographed and then to be transported to the new york county criminal court where weinstein will be released on $1 million bail and required to wear an ankle monitor, that according to two sources. because of the nature of the allegations, the statute of limitations doesn't apply because it involved forcible compulsion and that time limit,
the statute of limitations for those sort of alleged crimes were done away with back in 2001. so he will not be protected by any statute of limitations. and katty kay, a, aable turn of events for a man who five, six years ago was the king of hollywood and decided who got academy awards and who didn't by hiring them for his films. >> i'm watching him walk in and he looks so frail and stumbling almost and aged and i wonder whether women who have accused him, women like ashley judd, whose career was so impacted by weinstein, who is charging that
he charged her out of millions of dollars of earnings because when she resisted him her career got derailed and she wasn't getting parts and she's wondering what was that weinstein's doing? and you have to think of what is ashley jud thinking. the person walk, walking past the cameras into the courthouse, kind of stumbling and shuffling looking aged and he was one of the most powerful men in hollywood. it's worth remembering this whole me too movement isn't about sex. this is about power. it's about people in a position of power who have abused that power to take advantage of people who are under them and cause them years of mental angui anguish. >> andrea, this this has been a long time coming but hollywood is not the first major institution touched by this.
we had to endure the pain and nightmarish allegations and evidence of sexual abuse inside the catholic church for decades. we saw this happen in penn state and the media world and the news world, hollywood, sport s sport this is -- i'm sure for many people this is an important step even if harvey weinstein is not convicted because it's hard for prosecutors to convict on these charges. >> these cases are difficult. we saw the long travail in the cosby case and other cases where evidence is hard to establish, where years have elapsed and where, frankly, women who are witnesses are put on trial themselves and are not given enough credence in the law, in the courts. but look at this person walk,
this man as catty was describing looks frail but frankly he just is the symbol, whether he's convicted or not, of everything that is wrong, that is corrupt in these power relationships in industry after industry. he is the leading perpetrator of all those who have been accused of serial abuses, forcible rape and using his power and being empowered by witting or unwitting allies in the industry and politics. >> katty kay, three years ago this guy was at the top not only of the hollywood power structure but of the new york social scene, of american politics. friends of presidents, friends of prime ministers, you name it, harvey weinstein was one of the most connected people not only in new york and hollywood but
anywhere in america. >> democrat presidents have stayed in his house. he's been a big fund-raiser for them and he told the women themselves "i can make or break your career. he made no bones about this that he was asking them to do things to him sexually and in return he would advance their career because as you said earlier, heed that power to win you an oscar. ashley judd was up for a role in "lord of the rings," it would have netted her millions of dollar in income but it would have catapulted her career and she didn't get that role even though she was really in the running for it and she wonders now in the suit that she's bringing is whether weinstein had a word and said no you can't hire her. he chose his women very carefully. he chose women who were ambitious, who wanted to get ahead in their careers but who were also not powerful enough yet to rebuff him and say no, i won't do that so he was
strategic about the women he chose and he deliberately played on their understandable desire to get ahead in their careers. >> again, breaking news, harvey weinstein has surrender ed to authorities today in the new york police department's first precinct in southern manhattan. he's expected to be fingerprinted, photographed and transported to the new york criminal court where weinstein will be released on one million dollar bail and be required to wear an ankle monitor according to two sources. we will follow this news as it develops throughout the day. still to come on "morning joe," why was the president's in-house council at yesterday's highly classified briefs with top members of congress and the doj? well, the president's outside counsel, rudy giuliani, said it was because, quote, the president personally wanted him there. so, again, this is the stuff of
erdogan and putin. this is not the stuff of american presidents who don't say "i hereby demand, i'm going to launch an investigation of the people investigating me. or who doesn't say i want my personal lawyer there to try to intimidate the fbi and the department of justice. it's unbelievable. we'll talk about this more straight ahead. also ahead, we went through the list earlier, the paris climate accord shredded, the iran nuclear deal gone. tpp out the window. the north korea summit canceled. we're going to have the "new yorker's" susan glasser. she says it points to a president who's much better at breaking deals than making them and she joins us with her new piece in the "new yorker" coming up next on "morning joe."
of the north korea negotiations, it was clear that this week was going do much for trump's vaunted self-image as a deal maker. not only were the prospects of the meeting with kim in doubt, there were setbacks regarding trump's two other top priorities -- china and iran. 16 months into the trump presidency it's finally time to say we really do know, there are no deals with trump, there are increasingly unlikely to be. no, trump is a much better deal breaker than deal maker. trump seems to believe that saying he's a master negotiator over and over again is the same thing as being one. i'm a great deal maker he said in march, that's what i do. except he doesn't. and susan joins us now. susan we're going to play a game, i name the deal and you tell me whether donald trump made it or broke it. just say make or break.
north korea. >> still to be determined. >> iran. >> break. >> paris. >> i think we're breaking. >> tpp. >> breaking. >> nafta. >> working on it. >> you have some of the most important international deals and donald trump just instinctively breaks them. forget the ideology, but there is no method to that madness. he's just -- you remember sam rayburn's quote, it takes a carpenter to build a barn, any jackass can kick one down. >> the thing is, from the beginning of the trump presidency he did something that none of us thought was possible which is making washington into the center of global instability and these deals are turning our key allies and other capitals
topsy-tur topsy-turvy. we're not talking about the domestic deals in the united stat states. you had this amazing statement yesterday when trump released the letter to kim from the president's office in south korea, the whole existential fate rests on the resolution of the north korea thing. they said we have no idea what has just happened and we're trying to figure out what the president of the united states means by this. >> we could talk domestically when you had the dreamers debate. what did he say? i'll get a great deal. nothing happened. after every school shooting, i'm going to act on guns. everybody in the administration lets journalists across america know donald trump is going to make a deal on guns. never came. obamacare. he was going to give them a
system that was better and cheap er and he can't even get rid of obamacare but he's letting it die on the fine. >> don't forget infrastructure week. here in washington -- >> which one. >> every week is potentially infrastructure week but it tells you something so essential about the trump presidency. and actually how re've played into it, too. and the branding of the book title from decade's ago again, the person making the deal is the deal maker. >> the midst of this chaos,
he's -- let's go back. what is it -- and i don't pretend to know what's going on in his head but maybe joe does, michael does, what is it about him that prevents him from saying yes? there are deals to be had. he could craft something and get accolades. why is he so afraid of saying yes? >> but isn't it a case when he was in new york real estate he knew what a good deal was because he grew up in it, he knew when he was getting a deal of a steal and he would jump. everybody that works with him says he doesn't know policy, he doesn't allow himself to be briefed in a way to understand policy. >> so is it a lack of knowledge? >> yes, he never knows when he has a good deal. >> and then people tell him the
risks of making a bad deal and you pointed that out about the next situation when you contemplate the consequences you start to get afraid but it's more fundamental to his personality. in many ways the president is somebody who needs to be constantly -- more than making deals you have to be in the process of doing them and negotiating. >> he's always concerned about appearing weak. that is -- that is what has always driven him, that's why insults are better than diplomatic outreaches and so if he can be the one that tore up the deal against iran and stuck it to them, canceled the deal with north korea and stuck it to them, he's staconstantly thinki i believe, about those speeches in front of 25,000 people and applause lines.
andrea, that's how he lives his li life. it's about going to campaign rallies and being adored by people who see him as a john wayne type character. >> well, the upside of this was to come home, great pompeo with three released korean detainees at andrews air force base, declare victory and that night go to elkhart, indiana, and have a campaign rally and campaign for the midterm elections based on victory with north korea. the opposite is cancelling the summit saying let e's slow it down. he wanted to be the one pulling the plug before the north koreans did. it was because they feared naorh korea was about to cancel it and he didn't want the political
embarrassment. >> i think part of the problem is he's afraid of saying yes and once you have a settled deal it becomes vulnerable to attack to be a shifting target is easier than saying yes to a policy. >> as you said, susan, he has all of these people around him saying why a deal could be the bad deal. that's their job but when donald trump hears the downsides, unlike reagan after rag eykjavi saying i don't care what the "wall street journal" editorial says, this is our chance to strike a nuclear deal with the soviet union and i'm willing to do it. >> this is a great point and it matters when you have a president who isn't deeply immersed in the details.
the president has john bolton who has been in his entire career against dealing with the north koreans. he doesn't trust them. he went to war against his own george w. bush administration in -- over talking with north korea so he comes into the white house by all accounts if you read these interesting stories in the "washington post," it's clear john bolton was advising the president about the down side, the negative consequences and off new secretary of state who is only a few weeks into the job. he's been sent to create a process that in any other presidency we would have had month or years of negotiations before we made the move to agree on a meeting. >> this would be like henry kissinger getting a call from nixon three weeks before nixon was going see mao and say "henry, i want to make a deal." >> well reagan had principles and i was at reykjavik.
he had people around him who could advise him. there's no process here. >> and reagan and the people around reagan understood that he could walk away from reykjavik and chances were good that gorbachev would go back to his generals and say "maybe sdi works, maybe it doesn't, but we don't have the money to make that chance." >> if you're looking at the walking away from rag eykjavik the walking away from the north korean deal, the difference is just like you are saying, there's a point you're trying to follow. it's not clear to me and i don't think it's clear from susan's reporting that the president has a plan for north korea so when confronted with these other variables that come into play, his reaction is i don't want to fail, i don't want to get blamed for anything, i don't want to be
held accountable so i am stepping back. i want to be the guy that breaks the deal first. >> you know what donald trump's plan is? >> what's that? >> that's it. >> headline. that's what donald trump thinks about everyday. jon meacham is talking about how he talked to his staff members and the day before the inauguration he said everyday is to be viewed as an episode in a reality tv show where i vanquish my rivals. >> that's it right there. >> and that's what he does. do we have that fred hyatt op-ed that i could read? this is fred hyatt who runs the editorial page at the "washington pos "washington post." the article is "trump is proving to be the most predictable of presidents."
here's the last paragraph. for a man who ran for office saying we have to be unpredictable trump is proving not so hard to read. look at whatever he has believed in since the 1980s, ignore the evidence that has emerged since and you can make a fairly educated guess where he will end up and that is the case. the chaos is predictable. i talked to mika last night who's been in the middle of graduation ceremonies for several days and she says what's happened in the news today and i said nothing and she goes no e nothing? i said nothing that hasn't been happening for two years. it's chaos and i would run through the laundry list with you but he'll reverse half by tomorrow. susan glasser, thank you so much. we appreciate you being here. make sure you read susan's piece in the "new yorker." still ahead, the "washington post's" eugene robinson will be with us with his latest piece titled "president trump's spy and the dark art of branding." "morning joe" back in a moment
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so, what is -- what are we to do with our allies? what are we to say to our allies. what do you hear in britain and europe? >> there's a growing sophisticated awareness of how donald trump operates and exactly what you have been saying, this is going to be perpetual chaos. what he says today isn't what he's going to mean tomorrow and not what he's going to do next week. this is a president who proposes things like the north korea summit in the space of 45 minutes. it took him 45 minutes for the summit and may not happen. that's where we are all left. >> the problem here is, for the south koreans, for japan, this is a threat. this is a crisis. they can't be gliv about the
back and forths. >> yet there was about this process because you propose something so dramatic. it means other people will step in. if the united states can't be relied on, other countries will step in. >> yes, they will. still ahead, we are going to go inside president trump's decision to cancel the summit with the dictator of north korea. among the reasons, trump was worried kim would beat him to it. they show up at the classified briefing of the russia investigation and rudy giuliani, he who is knighted by the queen of england is acting like that is okay, because the president wanted them there. we are going to have a packed 8:00 a.m. hour coming up on "morning joe." little things can be a big deal. that's why there's otezla. otezla is not an injection or a cream. it's a pill that treats psoriasis differently. with otezla, 75% clearer skin is achievable
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at bp, everyone on an offshore rig depends on one another. that's why entire teams train together in simulators, to know exactly what to do before they have to do it. because safety is never being satisfied. and always working to be better. he makes a decision on north korea because of stormy daniels and people can deny that all they want. she did not want "the washington post" to have the word stormy daniels on the front page today. guess what? he succeeded. >> the relationship with the porn star is confirmed and he doesn't want it on the front page. >> there you go. we were feeling frisky that morning, i guess. that was the morning after the president hastily accepted an invitation with north korea's dick tor thai. it's now been scrapped. in new york times, peter baker
notes, surprises in the collapse of the trump summit seems like the least surprising news yet. good morning. it's friday, may 25th. with us here in washington, former chief of staff and cia and department of defense, security analyst, jeremy bash, katty kay and former chairman of the republican national committee, michael steele. nbc national news pretty cal reporter, heidi and in new york, richard haass. mika is finishing up her daughter's college events. congratulations to amelia, who is a graduate of johns hopkins university. big family news, jack scarborough turns 10 today. happy birthday, jack.
he's in double digits now. that's big, very big. richard haass, let me start with you. let's just, before we get into all the details of the meeting that was going to be but called off for the time being, i'm curious, in your immediate reaction. mine is a positive one. you don't have half baked summits, you don't leap in to try to change headlines on the front page of the paper. he rushed in, for those that don't remember, he rushed into a meeting where he wasn't supposed to be a member. he pushed and said, let's have a summit. 15 minutes later, they have hatched a summit on one of the most important geo political issues on the globe. so, anything that pushes that summit back and gives time to prepare, at least for me, it seems like good news. what about you? >> i agree. i thought there was no chance the summit could succeed. the gap between the two sides,
what was enormous, joe. this is something of a respite and opportunity. the question is whether the time is used to create the conditions where a summit could be convened more fundamentally where diplomacy could succeed. in particular, the american side. the most important set of meetings might be at the sit room in the white house and the situation room and whether the administration is prepared to accept, as a first step, something more limited and modest. the idea as an opening gamut, north korea is going to say we are going to open the most closed country in the world to the most intrusive inspections designed and implemented. that has zero chance of working. the question is whether this administration is going to rethink the basis of its policy. >> jeremy, i'm finding this no strange affection in my heart
for john bolton who fixed this summit by continuing to talk about the libya model, the libya model. people may ask, what north korea liked the libya model. gadhafi gave up the wmd program, then we killed him. i think bolton started throwing that out there to make the north koreans say, wait a second, the only reason the americans haven't invaded is because we have nuclear weapons. now they want us to denuclearize? >> exactly, joe. i'm with you and richard, a delay of the summit is fine. the manner it was done is highly dangerous. if they got together to say, look, we need more time. we have confidence building measures, get our lower diplomats together then we do. that's fine. here, the president is praying to god and he said he's never prayed to god before, he won't have to use the massive and
powerful nuclear arsenal. >> by way, he was talking about the way evangelicals were behind him. he said he never prays to god. then he writes -- >> he is fearing god. >> oh, you are making it about yourself. no, everybody says he watches the show every day. go ahead. >> the north koreans could actually continue to test intercontinental ballistic missiles, they could fire short range missiles toward japan as they did five times the middle of last year and get back to the provocative cycle and we put our military on a war footing and there could be a military conflict. i'm fine with delaying summits. the manner it was done is highly dangerous. >> katty, they may be back on, again. last night, breaking news that
north korea issued a statement saying they were deeply disappointed and they want to come back together and somehow figure out a way to make the summit go forward. like i said yesterday, we would all do well to ignore the words of the leaders of the two countries and focus on those that are actually working on it. it seems like everybody is posing right now. >> yeah. maybe everybody was posing all along. maybe donald trump was posing because he wanted to do something none of his predecessors have done. north korea was because he could get a photo-op tunety with donald trump. i agree it was a good idea to postpone or cancel the summit because the conditions were not right. since it was announced, we put ourselves in a worse position. the relationship between the south koreans and the u.s. were not on the same page. china has been peeled off and the north koreans succeeded in
doing that. they have xi ping on their side. when you don't have a unified block, there's not maximum pressure and pyongyang has nuclear weapons. would we have been better not to have gone through the last two months and continue with the negotiations that went on? we know everything administration has and carried out without making it big and public. >> is it a good bet that you are going to see this summit, in the end, anyway? these leaders are going to be drawn to each other like a moth is drawn to a flame and they are not going to be able to help themselves in the end? you can understand why. the north koreans would be an extraordinary win for the north koreans to have a face-to-face meeting with the united states president and for donald trump, well, donald trump is donald trump. those are some good headlines. >> i think you are probably right, joe, but each side is nervous about being blamed for
the failure of a summit. the north koreans don't want to show up and get mouse trapped by demands they can't meet. the united states doesn't want to be humiliated. the real question is whether, again, we are prepared to compromise and the alternatives, as katty said, one is think about living with a north korea with a large and growing arsenal of bombs and missiles or going to war. given how awful the two alternatives are, there is a logic for diplomacy. the question is, whether we are prepared to take a half loaf as a first stage. it doesn't rule out denuclearization. the real question, again, is whether we are prepared to take something less as a first step. that's the most north koreaen are going to agree to. it's important to keep in mind that somehow thrks is where the administration has it wrong.
they think we got to where we are, joe, because of threats and sanctions and that more pressure, therefore, can give us more of a result. i'm persuaded we got to where we are that north korea said, hey, we have reached a plateau. we have a lot of tests with missiles and bombs. maybe we can trade what we have done or might do for economic relief or sanctions relief. depending on why you think we got to where we are, whether it's pressure or the north koreans decide maybe we can get something out of this, that tells a lot about where we are going to go. >> you are right. they have the ability to at least threaten the delivery of a nuclear weapon anywhere in the continental united states. that's a good place to bargain from and they got, at least the threat of that and they can begin their bargaining. i'm with you, they are not going to give it up anytime soon, certainly not for donald trump, especially when the national
security adviser is talking about the, quote, libya model. still ahead on "morning joe," the president's lawyer crashes highly classified briefings with top members of congress in the d.o.j. what the white house is saying about the impromptu appearance. first, here is bill karins with a check on the forecast. >> this forecast is getting iffy by the hour. hurricane hunters are going down to the yucatan to check out this system we could have a subtropical storm or depression or a tropical storm later on this afternoon. it's flaired up. i colored the clouds. you can see the bubbling. those are the thunderstorms on the east side. hurricanes are up to a 90% chance it becomes a track storm today or tomorrow. today's forecast, this is a big day on the roads. northeast, perfect. you can get away to the beach, lake or pool, go for it. feels like summer. same for the great lakes and ohio valley. scattered storms in the southeast and very hot, that's a
theme, from texas to minnesota, you are in the 90s all weekend long. saturday, 95 in minneapolis, near record highs. heavy rainfall in the southeast. not associated with the tropical system, if we are going to get a land fall, it's not a hurricane or anything like that. it's more for the history books. the timing of it, looks like late sunday it could be closest to north florida, possibly southern portions of mississippi and alabama, too. new orleans, tallahassee, that's the flood zone area where the storm could stall out through memorial day. plenty of rain in florida and the carolinas. the tropical system, if it gets named is alberto. it could linger into tuesday and wednesday with up to a foot of rain. after last hurricane season, we don't need to start this one early. washington, d.c., you are going to be hot the next two days. thunderstorms will cool you off saturday afternoon and evening. you are watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. let's get started.
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welcome back to "morning joe." the justice department held two briefings yesterday, mainly for congress on an fbi performance role on the probe. the meetings turned more controversy when the president's in-house counsel showed up. that's right. for an intel briefing that involves the exposing of an fbi informant, exposes the methods used by the intel agencies. this was supposed to be to make sure the fbi had kept things in between the line and wasn't about donald trump, personally, it was about the nation as a whole. that's the garbage we have been hearing from the administration, devin nunes. then donald trump's personal lawyer, who is going to be defending him in any possible criminal case shows up. well, the white house chief of
staff, john kelly, was also on the participant list and arrived at the white house with special counsel emmitt flood. senate intel committee vice chair tweeted, for the record, in an ongoing criminal investigation into the president's campaign have no business showing up at a classified intel briefing. the hallways of congress, warner said this, while the president's chief of staff, john kelly, kept walking. >> it was inappropriate that kelly and flood were there. >> there's, um, never been a gang of eight meeting with that kind of white house presence. [ inaudible question ] >> yeah, you know why he didn't
answer? because there's no good answer. this is another violation of institutional norms. this is the president of the united states lying about what the fbi has been doing, lying about what republican fisa court judges have been doing, lying about what the justice department has been doing. lying, lying, lying. >> yep, then battering them to have a briefing because there were supposedly spies in his campaign. they go ahead and have the briefing and his criminal lawyer turns up. his criminal lawyer turns up to figure out who informants are and to further expose the methods of the federal bureau of investigation and the intel community in general. >> this is my recommendation to everyone who is currently under investigation by the fbi. the next time they have a meeting, make sure you have your folks show up and get that intel as well.
what the president's team did yesterday is something no other citizen in this country would be permitted to do, to have their counsel and executive chief officer from their business, if you will, inside a meeting. >> to figure out what evidence the fbi has against him in an ongoing criminal role. >> exactly. this is what twists my stuff a knot is that republicans are complicit in this crazy. they are sitting here now and dumbing down the system, they are dissintegrating the pillars and going after the justices like the doj and encouraging them they are not able to behave. >> you know, heidi, no man is above the law in america. that's been part of our creed when it comes to justice for a
very long time. but, donald trump, right now, because of republicans in the house of representatives, especially, is an american who is above the law. the rules do not apply to donald trump during investigation. the rules do not apply to donald trump because people like paul ryan and devin nunes say the rules that apply to you and me and 320 million americans don't apply to him. >> we have seen that day after day, yesterday as well when paul ryan was asked, do you think this is having any impact on our institutions. he says, point-blank, no. it's friday, let's do a weekend review. just this week, it's not just yesterday. it's the outing of a confidential source. it was the president, himself, ordering this meeting, calling rosenstein and rey and director coats saying he wants this meeting and not trying to hide
it, sending his own personal lawyer there and having rudy giuliani coming out afterwards saying, it depends on how much information we get. it's in full view. it's intentional. they are cutting out the middleman here, devin nunes who, at least in previous it rations with the wiretapping, the bogus wiretapping claims and unmasking claims would run over in the dark, cloak of night to the white house to give them information. coming up, despite rudy giuliani's suggestions, i don't know in quknow it, but rudy say he was knighted by the queen of england. the special counsel may have a long way to go. it's not going to be over by september 1st anymore than it was going to be next year. a new investigation that is very secret and very active. we'll tell you more when we return.
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and drafts ready to go in the event they get the word people are being fired, dismissed, they will press send and it goes to various attorneys general. they have a plan for that. >> yeah. very good. that sounds like just about every show you have seen where a guy goes, it happens to me. it looks like that's what he thinks. he was assistant fbi, director under mueller with his take on why the white house attacks are not affecting the outcome of the russia investigation, only mueller's strategy. now, despite trump's legal team assertion that robert mueller is beginning to wrap it up, actually, that's rudy giuliani, who is just making things up as he goes along, a new court filing depicts an investigation that is active and secret.
in federal court, mueller's prosecutors denied media request for searches. the special counsel's investigation is not a closed matter, but an ongoing criminal investigation with multiple lines of nonpublic inquiry. as of this date, the government brought criminal charges against 22 individuals and entities arising from their investigation. the fact that certain charges have been brought does not imply the special counsel's investigation into the matters is closed. adding that disclosure materials, quote, could reveal sources, methods, factual and legal extending beyond the charge conduct. one of the few messages from ideas the special counsel's office saying there is more to this investigation than those who already pleaded guilty or have been indicted. now, let's think about this. you have a lot of people, like
the vice president of the united states, whose channelling richard nixon saying it's time to wrap up this investigation. one year of watergate or one year of bob mueller is enough. but, in one year, the mueller investigation has resulted in five guilty pleas, 14 indictments of individuals and three companies along with a reported referral to federal prosecutors in new york on michael cohen. that's going to be, possibly, the biggest case. by compareson, in white water's four years, two acquittals and six dismissals you had a much longer and less effective investigation. jeremy, of course, some of the same people, including rudy giuliani, that have one opinion on bob mueller's investigation had quite a different opinion when it came to bill clinton. in fact, we've got giuliani
saying the president doesn't have to talk to anybody, yet there he is with charlie rose in 1999 during impeachment going, if the special counsel asks for an interview, he, the president, has to give it. no man is above the law. again, republicans cheered on ken star for four years in a failed deal. we are in year one. >> by not talking to the special counsel, the president is actually dragging this out. that was the advice he got from his pal, chris christie. there are many ways to make it longer, almost no way to make it shorter. >> i was talking to somebody inside the administration, michael steele, that kept telling me the russian investigation was nonsense. i said, you know, if it's such nonsense, why do you all -- he always tells me, there's nothing there. if there's nothing there, then why are you acting like they are about to uncover like a thousand
tons of contraband in your backyard. >> yeah. i said this for the longest time, from the beginning of this. if there is no there there, if this is the witch hunt that the president says it is, then you go out and do your thing. you have nothing to hide. i'm fully giving you access to everything. i'm going to run the government and move my agenda forward because the weight of nothing will show that there is a false narrative here. but, the president does have something that he's concerned about. >> the president is very scared. >> it seems to be why the president is trying to set the bar so high in terms of what any guilty verdict might look like. there has to be, literally trump and putin in a boat in the back sea cooking up the election, otherwise, there's nothing to be seen. if they start digging into the
finances, the chances of there being nothing there -- >> coming up on "morning joe," we are going live to jerusalem where richard engel is on assignment with intriguing new reporting. first, triumph, defeat and resilience. the legacy of john mccain with the man who co-authored the senator's memoir next on "morning joe." this is frank. sup! this is frank's favorite record. this is frank's dog. and this is frank's record shop. frank knowns northern soul, but how to set up a limited liability company...
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john mccain is held a political mainstream together for three decades. as the senator battles brain cancer, it is plunging into uncertainty. we report on the issues that are at play. >> it's the final chapter of the john mccain era. >> i don't know how much longer i'll be here. maybe i'll be gone before you hear this. >> the senator is in his last term, leaving a void in arizona, suddenly a bellwether of
politics. senator jeff flake stood up to trump but down in the republican primary. >> simply put, we may have hit bottom. >> reporter: she will fight. martha is congresswoman martha mcsally. >> like the president, i'm tired of d.c. politicians. >> reporter: a veteran pilot -- >> you expect me to know everything, i'm not in the senate yet. >> reporter: tuesday, another in the primary. >> sheriff joe arpaio. >> 85 years old, convicted of criminal contempt and recently praised by vice president pence. some say he is a spoiler in the race. >> a lot of republicans say that you should drop out of the race. >> i'm sure that congresswoman isn't saying that. >> reporter: the democrat is pitching herself as a moderate.
>> i call it independent. >> reporter: last month has democrats hopeful, a five-point margin in a district trump won by 20. republicans spent almost $1 million on ads to re-elect doug after a funding fight in education, a key issue for david garcia. >> they are saying we need schools to work. >> reporter: former republican governor, jan brewer is warning her party. are republicans listening to their constituents? >> unfortunately, i don't think they have. we are in a vacuum and think we know what they are thinking and we don't. >> reporter: it looms over mccain. >> my predickment, unpredictable. >> reporter: he blamed you for the pardon of donald trump. >> and i'm a convicted felon. my prayers go out to him. >> that's facttually correct. >> with the man who co-wrote the
memoir, mark salter. we have nbc's andrea mitchell and "the washington post" eugene robinson with us, samstein and rnc chairman michael steele with us as well. mark, you know, it's interesting, we have said it here before, of all the incredible things john mccain has done for this country, i'm not so sure his voice, his courage, his political courage starting on january 20th, 2017 may have been one of his proudest chapters. >> it's an important time to hear his voice and he is trying to make sure it is heard as long as he is able to. i agree with that. >> you saw a lot of candidates. what is the state of politics in arizona and the republican party right now? >> i'm happy to say, joe, i don't have to pay that much attention to this race. i have been involved in my last
arizona race i think. congresswoman mcsally will win the nomination. >> does arizona become a purple state now? >> it's trending that way. the president only won by 4%, john won by 14%. it's a mccain republican state. >> yeah. what is -- what is the senator's lasting legacy? >> oh, i think his commitment to american values, above all. making sure they are defended at home and advanced abroad is his greatest legacy. >> he's a tough guy, very tough guy. >> he is. >> in fact, he told mike barnicle one time, he wishes i had been chained to a battleship that was sunk in pensacola bay. by the way, you laugh, he meant it. but, the great thing about senator mccain is, he always
understood that tomorrow is another day and the person who is your political foe one day may be your best ally the next. >> it is. if you remember the speech he gave when he came back, all 99 colleagues stayed on the floor for the speech. that's rare enough in itself. they all greeted him so affectionately before and after when he had been in a fight with every one of them at one time. >> several times. >> his issue against torture, to me, is one of the things that stand out. >> yeah. he's -- >> he's at a point when the odds were -- a lot of people were willing to accept the unacceptable. he was from the beginning. >> when he realized what was going on. as he explained it, the last thing he had in prison, when they beat the resistance out of
you is you would never do what they were doing. that has guided him all along. >> one of the things that, as someone who has been, it's one of the things that's not made enough of is the fact that we would not have established diplomatic relations with vietnam when we did, if not for john mccain. john mccain paired up with john kerry for whom he did not have high regard. they had shared experiences and were on opposite sides of the debate in vietnam or over vietnam in the '70s. the fact he paired with john kerry to, basically give political coverage of bill clinton, accused of being a draft dodger in the '92 campaign, being a draft dodger and having to live down that. there was no other way that bill clinton could have normalized relations with vietnam and gone to that memorial without those two men flanking him.
>> the film that is going to air on memorial day, president clinton says that, i couldn't have done it had they not helped me. >> later, on the armed services committee, going on trips with hillary clinton when she was beginning to get respect for her role on that committee. >> that is a little under stood policy. he met with more than your average congressman. he takes a big delegation with him, makes sure it is bipartisan, finds somebody that is new. >> amy klobuchar had that experience. >> because of that, there are a great many members of senate that share his world view. the hbo film is airing monday, john mccain for whom the bell tolls. take a quick look. >> i know that this is a very vicious disease.
i greet every day with gratitude and i will continue to do everything that i can. but, i'm also very wary that none of us live forever. i'm confident and i'm happy and i'm very grateful for the life i have been able to lead and i greet the future with joy. >> first of all, cancer is a vicious disease. all of us have been touched by someone whose had it and people should go to a charity and make a donation. for me, the quintessential mccain moment came in the 2008 campaign when the woman on the stump, famously said that barack obama is a muslim and he had the
backbone to say, no, he's not. i'm wondering, as someone who has been with him and at the campaign, do you look back at that campaign now and see maybe the seeds of the current political climate there? the senator says he wishes he picked joe lieberman as the vice president. it wasn't a rebuke to sarah palin, i know that, but looking back, some of the signs were there? >> yeah, but it proceeded the oa campaign and the crowds late in the campaign. it's hard, as you know, you have been on campaigns, you don't know what the crowd was saying. things were getting heated out there. really, throughout the general election, even before we had a democratic nominee picked, we were, you know, the presumtive nominee long before senator
obama, then senator obama was. he stopped people from saying things, there was a deejay in ohio emphasizing his middle name. john would stop that. all along he did that. at that moment, it wus post lehman brothers we were the under dog and we knew it. it was unlikely to end in success. >> right. >> it seems poignant. >> let me ask you, personally, knowing john mccain, respecting john mccain and loving him as much as you do, you are a bit of a fighter yourself. >> yes, sir. >> and, meghan mccain expressed her deep concern and anger when people say extraordinarily insensitive things about a great american like john mccain right now in the battle for his life. how personally do you take it and let me ask you, even though he's taking the high road, will
you ever be able to look past what these people have said? >> well, yes and no. i mean, if it's after 6:00 and i have had a drink and look at twitter, i take a dim dunk off hannity. >> i'll tell you what i tell mika, don't do that. >> but, you know, i try to always tell myself that that's not the real world. that really isn't humanity. those are people who act like jerks anonymously. >> right. >> i have said this before, but a year ago, before he was diagnosed, he and a friend had gone to see the diamondbacks, whom he loves, play the natts at natts park. he walked in, the announcer noticed his presence and the people stood up and acknowledged him. not many get that before his diagnosis. that is how he is regarded. i try not to let the jerks get
to me too much. >> thank you so much. greatly appreciate you being here. senator mccain's memoir is out. john mccain, for whom the bell tolls airs monday on hbo. next, who hired an israeli firm to investigate members of the obama administration. richard engel is going to join us with the latest. also, gene robinson on the one thing donald trump is really good at. i think that's probably a compliment. keep it here on "morning joe." never owned a business. there's nothing small about it. are your hours small? what about your reputation, is that small? when you own your own thing, it's huge. your partnerships, even bigger. with dell small business technology advisors you'll get the one-on-one partnership you need to grow your business. because the only one who decides how big your business can be, is you. the dell vostro 15 laptop, with 7th gen intel® core™ processors.
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and always working to be better. images of movie mogul harvey weinstein leaving a new york city police precinct in handcuffs after being processed on sex crime allegations. and we now know the charges that he's going to be facing, he surrendered to new york police about an hour ago and has been charged with rape, criminal sex act, sex abuse and misconduct for incidents involving two women. once he's done with the booking process, weinstein's going to be taken to the manhattan criminal court to formerly be charged. weinstein has denies the allegations against him. now, let's bring in from jerusalem, chief foreign correspondent richard engel. he's been working on a big
investigation into black cube that israeli spy company was involved in both of the harvey weinstein sexual harassment cases and in another case, which targeted ben rhodes, another obama official. richard, really, really stunning revelations. what have you found out? >> so it's amazing there would be this kind of transition. as you're watching harvey weinstein and his legal proceedings right now, you know harvey weinstein hired this company black cube which is based in israel. they are, a lot of them, former israeli intelligence operatives who worked for this company to try to befriend and find out information about his accusers. well, it turns out this same company, black cube, had a different operation with a much more political motive. this company was going after people who were involved in the
drafting of, creation of, promotion of the iran nuclear deal. specifically midlevel obama officials and the company using cutouts, using agents, misrepresenting themselves, was reaching out to these former officials and their family members in an effort to dig up dirt on them and dig crediting them, discredit the iran deal. we managed to speak with someone with direct knowledge of this operation and the victims themselves. >> it's creepy to know that someone was trying to dig up your profile and the names of your in-laws and your kids and your wife, where you live. that's pretty sleazy. >> colin, i don't really have much to hide, but it is also not okay with us that some firm is trying to gain access to us. >> black cube has been asked to basically dig up dirt on a
government official to look into their private live whether there had been any impropriety or anything really which showed these two player in the fomenting of the iran deal were somehow corrupt and underhand. >> who wanted this done? >> you'll never find their name on a contract anywhere obviously because with harvey weinstein, it's his lawyers. all fingers picket to the trump camp. >> so we're going to have a full story on this tonight at 9:00 on msnbc on a signment. but it really is an amazing story, how a private level intelligence company based in israel tried to discredit former members of the obama administration specifically tied into the iran deal which of course president trump recently announced he was pulling the united states out of. >> all right, richard engel, thanks again.
the special series on assignment with richard engel continues at 9:00 p.m. eastern right here on msnbc. andrea, how fascinating. i think john heilman once said that most of donald trump's tweets are confessional in nature. he's talking about spy gate. here, months and months ago, he was actually -- or his people, it looks like, were spying on obama officials and trying to dig up the sleazyist dirt they could on them to try to undermine the iranian nuclear deal. talk about the almost criminalization of politics. >> and i want to know more about this, because it could affect me frankly, it's not just public policy, because according to "the new york times," this is all i know about it, several reporters, jeff goldberg from "the atlantic," from "the new york times," myself, who had been covering ben rhodes, the
iran deal. i spent years covering the iran deal. i was on the trips every step of the way for years in vienna for that final month. that we apparently were somehow involved or our names came up in the investigation. i don't know whether -- i mean, we simply don't know what the involvement is. that's all i know. >> there's so much -- sometimes you have to step back and look at the fact there's so much dirt being kicked upped. a story like this, which is deeply disturbing, would be a five-alarm fire in any other administration, gets basically swept under the rug. a story like president trump's insecure phone line that he's apparently still using his cell phone. these things get lost because the news cycle changes so rapidly but it's deeply disturbing if these allegations are true that they were outsourcing spying on former government officials to undermine public policy.
>> anyone who may have called them for legitimate -- >> spying on former government officials and journalists, talk about chilling. >> it is chilling. and, you know, the other thing just to follow on sam's point, the thing is, we're not terribly surprised. this is an awful thing. but, you know, is this, like, that surprising, given all that we know about the trump camp and about politics today and about technology today and -- and, you know, this is -- things have changed. and not in a good way. not in a good way. >> the goal at the end of the day, on your point, gene, is from the trump world perspective is to get people to the point where they don't care. >> uh-huh, exactly. >> andrea's concerned, sam's concerned. people in the media are concerned. but the rest of us -- >> becomes normalized. >> normalized.
>> dangerous part of this whole thing. >> really is. and, again, we're talking about, it looks like president trump's team spying on journalists and former government officials but of course ironically, not surprisingly, donald trump continues to push his own spy gate narrative this morning with a series of tweets. in a series of three tweets, he claims that spies were planted in his campaign by the obama administration, which of course is a lie. and that brings us to latest column, president trump spy and the dark art of branding. tell me about the column. >> so what he has done in this case is take a situation and turned a man who was an informant into a spy. he told a friend, a cording to the associated press, as he was planning his, you know, his
attack on the investigation by this route, he chose the word spy. he wanted to brand the guy a spy because that would resonate better with the space. this is something that donald trump is really, really good at. >> this is something he obsesses about. >> exactly. >> i remember, he was obsessing what should i call ted cruz, then he came to lying ted cruz. i recall all the things he didness campaign, he was proud of the fact he came up with low energy jeb. and crooked hillary. couldn't quite figure out what to call hillary clinton. but he got to crooked hillary. this is what he does. >> exactly right. it is the labeling. how he creates the character the rest of us then feed off of. spy, we have negative connotations of that. >> by selecting and defining the language, you shape the debate. in order to say, but hold it, he
wasn't a spy at all. you have to repeat the word, reinforces it. >> that's what the trump organize does. >> that's why he doesn't build his buildings anymore, he just puts his name on it. that's the same thing. >> all right, so that's special. richard engel's special is on, what, 9:00 tonight? 9:00 tonight. and a couple of big announcements, some family announcements here. amelia, mika's amelia, graduated from john hopkins university yesterday, majoring in political science, and she is going to be going on to georgetown, where she's going to study i believe international relations. of course, that's fascinating coming from this family. i don't think anybody else is focused on that. very exciting. as i said before, jack
scarborough hits double digits. he turns 10 years old today. happy birthday, jack. and i hope everybody here and everybody watching has a great memorial day weekend. i hope you stay dry. i don't think you will if you're in washington, d.c. that does it for us this morning. stephanie ruhle picks up the coverage right now. stephanie. >> thanks so much, joe. good morning, everyone. i'm stephanie ruhle with a lot to cover today. starting with a preemptive strike. the president cancels the upcoming summit with north korea before kim jong-un could, leaving many allies and lawmakers asking what is next. >> the president's ultimately going to have to decide if he wants to try to pursue his quote/unquote nobel prize. the only way he's going to be able to accomplish that goal is if he goes to the negotiating table. >> what an image. harvey weinstein surrenders. the disgraced movie mogul turns himself into police in new york city on sex crime